THE PATIENT MAGNET PODCAST EPISODE FEATURING IZHAK MUSLI
Izhak Musli
Founder & CEO, Get Kudos
Transcript
[Music] Welcome back to the Patient Magnet podcast. My name is Jared Roar. I’m the
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CEO and founder of Aesthetic Conversion, a web and SEO agency specifically for the field of medical aesthetics. And in
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the Patient Magnet Podcast, we’re talking all about how to attract new attention to your business. Convert that
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attention into a paying patient and then have that patient come back for years and years to come. And joining me today,
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we have my good friend Isaac, who owns an amazing company called Get Kudos. And we’re going to talk about how to increase that retention rate, how to get
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people coming back over and over and over for years to come. Because transparently, Isaac, when I um when I
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talk to clients that I have about their retention rate, the big things that I always encourage them to do is like, “Oh, you should do events. Oh, you
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should do eblasts to your list, text blast to your list.” I don’t always think of referral programs, nor do I
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have a lot of because because if because if I’m right, get kudos is primarily like a referral type program for
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patients referring other patients. Is that right? Well, it’s funny that you say it. One of the first kind of like tagline that I
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thought to put for get kudos and we changed it to this point, right? It’s kind of like um operate with a powered
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by loyalty driven by data. But it used to be the first thing that I wanted to call it was actually patient
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appreciation platform because that’s really what it’s all about. It’s ability to give incentives and incentivize
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positive activity that benefit your practice, your business and show appreciation to your patients
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who help you to support that growth. And so it’s it’s primarily focused on that. It’s really everything that is
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moving in between. Whether it’s to get them to come back more often, spend more money, bring their friends, come back to
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your office events. You can even give them incentives for that to come to show up so you can increase the shop rate and
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even spend more money during that event. So, it goes to almost tackle all of those areas.
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That is awesome. Now, um I want people to know a little bit about your CV, about your history because Isaac is is
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is he is one of the secret puppeteers behind the whole industry. So he is yeah you laugh but I’m telling you I see
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there’s so many times that I see like oh wow this incredible conference and then I’ll see you on the board of directors
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or oh this amazing events happening and I’ll see Isaac running something or speaking somewhere he is he is a very
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trusted ear and adviser to the industry what’s what’s a little bit about your background uh whether it’s in this space
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or just in general yeah I’ll start well the general one I’m coming from the tech space really built
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my own computer when I was 13 and from there on just kept playing with computers, network and internet the rest
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of my life pretty much and so that is kind of like the backbone within that I’m also an entrepreneur so at the age
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16 I already started my first business right and start to wrote business plans and so I always had that kind of like
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fire in and entrepreneurship and tech stack obviously on the other hand is a
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great combination to create things and so I always like to create platforms to solve problems and so the first platform
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that I created in aesthetics and that’s how I started in aesthetics actually uh was at a KPIs. It was the first business
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just dashboard for aesthetic practices. We analyzed hundreds of aesthetic practices. That’s even how I got the
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chance to learn Zane and out of what is the areas of weaknesses to a lot of those practices and actually the same
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reason why after we sold Atlas KPI I started medical PRM which was a lead management platform.
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At that point I already had a background of like Salesforce admin, Hopspot admin and a lot of other tech stuff. But I
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realized that no matter if I can analyze all the data in the world for practice if they don’t call back to a lead that
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call them or schedule appointment on the website or just put a contact form what’s the point of all the rest of the
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KPIs right is like clearly the lowest hanging fruit. So um a little bit more on the background. So obviously the tech
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side um I had Atlas KPI sold medical PRM sold it to Simplas. I ran with them for about a year and a
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half chief product officer, chief revenue officer. Um help them to do a lot of the product feed and grow the uh
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sales efforts. Then from there I joined Terry Ross for Apex platform as a co-CEO.
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Um we had a great successful run. We merged that with um engaged technologies
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nowadays knows as clarity more for educational platform for patients coming to practices and need to learn more
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about the procedures and earlier this year launch um get kudos
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which is really to help with the second opportunity I’ve already seen and recognized when I was analyzed data
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through Atlas KPI practices fail on both ends of the funnel one is on the top to handle the
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leads which I think now it start to get a little bit better with go eye level shows up everywhere where there is more
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options, but then they also do a horrible job at the back of the funnel after they cut
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the patient as a patient. Now what? And that’s really what getas is all about. It’s to handle the back of
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the funnel. And so in addition to that, I’m also the co-founder um of the 4S summit which is
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part of the aesthetic success group which is awesome. Yeah, we love it. Um and in December
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we’re going to have here in Fort Lauderdale again and um and also I have consulting which is this is how I’m getting involved with
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a lot of different companies in this space do a lot of consulting and guidance to primarily tech companies but
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different innovations as well and on top of that you’re just a really nice guy on top you know like you know
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there’s always that phrase like there’s always people saying oh don’t meet your heroes or whatever and there’s been plenty of times that I’ve met people
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that I admire from a business standpoint from afar and I meet them in person and I’m like oh man I wish I could just keep
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the old picture I had of them. You just get better and better every time I get to know you. So, it’s very and Yeah. And
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and and I’m not I’m not just saying it. I genuinely admire you more and more every time we get to get to talk because
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you have this heart to build people around you and build things around you
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and add value to things around you. And you could tell I think you know I I’ve always I’ve always said that I am not
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I’m not money motivated. I’m not uh power motivated. I am impact motivated,
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you know, and I have there’s no shade to anybody who’s money motivated. People who are money motivated, I see the way
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they work and I’m like, “God, I wish I had that because they’re crushing.” Or if they’re power motivated, I see the
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way they network and I see the way that they leverage relationships around them and I’m like, “God, that’s so impressive.” Uh, but I’m not. I if I
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know I can help somebody, I’ll it’ll get me out of bed in the morning. And I see that with you and I resonate with certain people like that. I see I see a
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lot of that with you. Um, similar with I see that with Terry. I see that with a lot of the people that you surround yourself uh with. So, I’m
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very excited uh about uh the get the get kudos platform. And oh, just to touch on
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that that point you made earlier is I agree with you that clinics I I think I always say you have to get an A+
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in three classes to win as a business owner. You have to get an A+ in your marketing class. You got to get an A+ in
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your sales class and an A+ in your product delivery class. You know, where where basically you’re fulfilling on the
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promises you made in these two classes. and clinic owners generally we have lots of training available in the states and
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they do a decent job across the board on delivering the service. It’s marketing
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and sales that they stink at. And in in Get Kudo’s case, it’s a remarketing. It’s it’s taking that existing list and
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cycling them back through uh the funnel. But uh what’s that?
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Let me add you one more element that I think they need to get an A+ especially nowadays as the industry continue to
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grow. So you probably know we are right now stands on around 11,000 medas in the US. We’re going to get by 2030, which is
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only 5 years away, not even five year at this point, we’re going to surpass the 15,000. Which that means for every two
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meds that we know now, they’re going to be one more, one addition. That’s a massive additional competition. You think about the additional providers,
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three providers per med, that’s another 15,000 providers. That’s a lot more competition for
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people. And so I think that really what what differentiates successful practices
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who know potentially how to convert really well, do marketing very good, a lot of people coming through the door and everybody knows about them and even
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can do the best services. My opinion, experience is the key.
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Patient experience, yeah, covers all the bases of everything. And I even say to people during the when we
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speak about get kudos, I’m like loyalty program without an amazing experience not going to fly. You can have the best
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loyalty program, but if people don’t like the experience at your place, they’re not going to come back. And the come back means spend more
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money, pay premium, leave you more margins. It touch all the way straight to the profitability.
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Um, and I think that that is to me the number one element on all businesses regardless even just sales.
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Yeah, that’s huge. Now, when you started uh when you started Get Kudos, what are some of the what are some of the pain
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points that you saw that you were saying, “Hey, this could solve this.” What are some of the big things that you’re seeing with practice owners in
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general that you’re saying, man, they just don’t know how to whatever it is, have a good retention rate, they don’t
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know how to show love to their patients. What were some of those pain points that you saw that were common amongst
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clinics? It’s funny that you asked. So, I’ll start with it’s actually an industry stat, right? And so industry stat says
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and I think it’s come from the MSPA report of the industry the retention rate among aesthetic practices is 50%.
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That means that when they can crash it on the marketing side and crash it on the conversion side and get the sales in
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and maybe do the best performing of services but the only one out of two patient that they’re going to see going
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to come back. And this is this 50% is across the industry. This is not uh the best ones.
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No, no, no. That’s across the industry. The best ones actually and I analyzed some some P&Ls of um aesthetic
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practices. They generate over 40% IBIDA which considered to be the top three in the US.
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Yeah, they’re I can tell you that they spend very little on marketing. The experience
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is amazing and the retention surpassed the 70 75%. People just keep coming back, coming back, bring their friends
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and all and some of those even when we could for them get kudos all of a sudden you see the difference between non-loyal
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customer to loyal customer which both of them are happy customers but the loyal customer will spend between two to four
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times more just because you give them a reason and that’s really
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what the get kudos is all about is to give people a reason to stay top of mind like there was a lot of places that I
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went and I really like the food and I really like the service and I really liked it everything about it. Right. And
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I left and forgot about the place. And when next time I feel like, oh, let’s go to some place. Am I going to go to a brand
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new place that I never tried before? Cuz that’s also exciting, right? Yeah. But at the same time, if they would just give me a reason to remember them or to
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come back or to tell my friends about them, I would do it. So I would say before even the data of
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the practices, it’s all started from personal experience. That’s the truth of it. And I tell sometimes the story, right? It’s actually on some bar here in
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Miami that um was elected to be one of the top bars in the US which was
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happened to be five minutes drive from my house and I had no idea that the places even exist. So on the marketing side, massive fail.
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My neighbor told me about it cuz a friend of his from California told him about it that he read in some little
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magazine about it or some Reddit or something. Yeah. And so we went over there and it was a blast. It was
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amazing. The drink was our state-of-the-art, you know, kind of like Japanese concept and they give you like
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free shots with different drinks and you don’t even need to ask. So, you’re like, “Wow, you constantly on that wow factor,
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right? Wow factor is the second like element for the amazing experience.” And we left the place and I was like,
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“I don’t even know how the place called. I know how to get there now.” So, I wanted to tell more friends about it,
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but it wasn’t easy. They didn’t make it easy for me. I wanted to go back but next time I was there it was already
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packed. So I was like okay maybe next time then totally forgot about the place until I get a chance to speak about the place in those kind of podcasts or on
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the stage and so but I felt that there is a real missing piece for local
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businesses that do an amazing service and want their patients or customers to
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come back more often to bring their friend to put reviews about them to speak highly about them and remember
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them and so that is really the reason for all of it. It’s this engine that will continue to
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stay top of mind because it’s something that they like and they want to do more and they need to do more ultimately when it comes to aesthetics.
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Now earlier you said a loyal client will spend somewhere around you know two to four times what a what a non-loyal
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client is a loyal client and a retained client the same thing. Uh somebody who is retained is okay. So, uh, not only
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increasing retention rate just keeps the same people coming back, but those same people are also spending a significant
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amount more money on average as well. That is exactly correct. Oh my gosh. Okay, so think about it. I’ll give you the
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comparison that I always use. Think about the airlines, right? Yeah. Airlines is the best. All of us have
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loyalty points. But once you get that upgrade, once you get the status, that is your brand. That’s a company you’re
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going to fly way more. True. And you’re going to spend way then way more money. It’s true. just the way it is.
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Now, um uh if the average across the country is 50%. Um is that the number
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retention rate, is that the number that an average clinic should shoot for? Hey, you should try to hit at least 50%. What
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what kind of retention rate should clinics be shooting for on average? I would say at the very least 65.
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65 will will move their needle a lot. It will allow them those margins.
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And again, that’s on the retention. I really think that on the loyalty side to exactly the point that you brought
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before the profitability, it’s the name of the game. It’s the name of the game to stay in business. It’s the name of
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the game to deliver a superior service because you have that funding that you can play with and you’re not just try to
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survive all the time and you need to do the bare minimum. Give people give like cup of water instead of a bottle, right?
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Those are it’s a small money but accumulates over the years. So when you don’t need to think about saving that money cuz you charge more and you charge
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premium and people are happy to come and spend it and bring their friends to come and spend it and you then spend less on marketing
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your profitability spikes up and so retention is one. So if you can retain
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them to come back and not lose them and go somewhere else is one. You can get them to come back more often instead of
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three times four times a year and then you can get them to spend instead of 600 800 cuz they like your skincare and they
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trust you and they want to try other services because you suggesting it to them or you give them an incentive to try a new device
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that you bought. They will be the first one to come and spend the money. And so that is how that that’s exactly how it
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plays. It’s all about the numbers at the end of it. But it becomes so much more fun to run the business when your
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patients are happy and loyal and it’s the same ones and you don’t just and when you know who those people are, it’s huge. I saw I saw Julie Davis uh do
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a lecture one time. She was doing it on behalf of podium and uh and it what she
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did blew my mind. I was like you little genius. She identified all of her retained patients, all of her loyal
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patients, and she was considering purchasing a let’s let’s just call it a
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Syon or a Morpheus 8. She was I don’t know if those exactly, but it was she was deciding between two devices
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and she was deciding between let’s say Syon and Morpheus 8. She sent out a text to her loyal patients saying, “Hey, Syon
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does this, Morpheus 8 does this. Which one of those would you want to see us bring on?” and they took votes and
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whoever, you know, whatever won the vote, they purchased and then they remarketed to that same list and
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immediately booked out the device for the next like month and a half from just sending out like, “Okay, great. And you
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get an introductory offer with this, whatever.” But it was because she knew who those loyal patients were. She had I
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think she was tracking uh their their NPS uh their net promoter score uh within Podium or within their CRM. I’m
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not exactly sure where she was tracking it, but she was sending it out to all of her high NPS. Um, now it’s funny that you say NPS because
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at get kudos, that’s literally the beginning of the flow of the platform. Start from satisfaction survey. You can
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do NPS, which is would you recommend these friends and family about this place or you can do the cat set, which
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is those smiley faces that normally more applicable to what we do because it’s transactional. It’s an experience of
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this time and the next time may going to be a different experience, right? So, it’s a little bit less holistic, but
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it’s more specific to that experience. And that’s how we start the flow because if they’re not super happy, I’m not
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going to speak with them about loyalty and give them a reason to come back. I’m going to speak about what is it that we need to do to improve and then give
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them a reason to come back to show them that I can improve it. Right? And so, it’s totally different handling, but it’s all start from satisfaction.
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For everyone listening, NPS stands for net promoter score. Anytime you have gotten a survey on a website or you’ve
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gotten a text or you’ve gotten a at the end of an engagement with a with a store and they say, “How satisfied are you
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with our service on a scale? How likely are you to recommend us on a scale of 1 to 10?” And then you say 5 6 7 8 9 10.
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Yes. Do they want to know how often people would love to recommend them? I’m sure what they’re actually doing is they
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are assigning you a point value. If you say anything, seven and up, eight and
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up, they’re like, “Oh my gosh, Jared loves us. We want to give Jared discount opportunities. We want to give Jared
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invites to events. We want to give Jared things because we know Jared is highly likely to tell his friends about us.”
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So, the net promoter score allows you to identify the core group of people that
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will promote your business. So NPS I cannot I can’t I can’t sing enough
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praises about it. If you can identify that as a clinic NPS is going to change the game for you. And so having some
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sort of a whether and seesat right stands for customer satisfaction. Uh so that’ll be like the little happy faces
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all the way down to a frowny face. Um but the people who are on the happy face side are the ones that you target for
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extra opportunities and extra events that they can come to. And it sounds like so get kudos. The whole process
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starts with identifying some of those net promoters and some of those recommend customers. Yeah. So, we have two entrances into the platform, right?
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One of them is if you do like website or email campaigns or social media or even inside the treatment room. I’m assuming
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that if you scan that, you’re already happy, right? And so, I will just going to enroll you into the reward program that gives you all those incentives to
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do different activities. It’s almost like a game that you’re unlocking incentives that ultimately going to get you to come back to the practice and
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spend money. That’s the main name of the game. Right. Right. But if you are at the checkout
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point, right, and you did not scan on any of our other platform and you’re not inside the system, I’ll say, “Do you
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mind to scan this and let us know how you do today?” That will take you through the survey. And then that’s how
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I’m going to intelligently flow you into how to handle you. If you’re super upset, I’m going to have the manager
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call you. Exactly. It’s a different I don’t want you to go to Google and speak badly about my business. Exactly. Exactly.
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So, it’s preventing a lot of negative reviews. It saves those are the retention opportunities right the happy
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people give them a reason they will come back spend more bring friends but the less happy people those are retention
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opportunities you want everybody to become advocates there is great book called raving fence right or there is
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million books about it it’s a gamecher and again like I said it’s a game changer not because just of how more fun
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it’s going to come to come to the practice and everybody already know you and create relationship with your patients and become almost like growth
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partner to some degree right they help you and they want to support you and they speak about you. But it’s also
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become profitable. The profitability moves. People don’t even understand how
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much the profitability the ebida that bottom line the expenses are shrinking down. Revenue goes up with the same
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amount of patience. And that is the key. Awesome. That is awesome. Now, uh for
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all of our other uh viewers and listeners, um a retained patient would be somebody who comes back a second time
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or is it just somebody how do we identify that retained patient? What is the what’s the what’s the yes this
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person’s officially loyal? So the thumb rule for med spa right let’s call it med spa non-surgical
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practice the thumb rule is a patient needs to come between three to four times in reality most patient come
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between two to three times in the very good practices they come three in the very averages they come two
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in the least as we know they only came once a year and so in get kudos really the effort
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that we try to put is if your average is currently two we’re going to try to take it to three and we’re only going to and
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we’re not going to promise you the world right? We’re not going to be able to bring 100% of your patient. We normally can bring 20 30% of the patients. Now,
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if we do know that your revenue, 80% of your revenue is based from 20% of your
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patients. And I challenge all practices, go do the exercise. I’ve done that on hundreds of practices. More successful
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and less successful. It’s always the same. True. 20% of the patients generate 80% of the revenue. If I can make that 20 to grow
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into 25, game changer for the practice. Of course. Of course. And that’s you can
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beef up that core group. Yeah, that’s incredible. Yeah. So, uh, in general, what clinics should
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be striving for is is first identifying that retention rate. Can they track that in their, um, in their EMR? Usually,
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your EMR is retention rate. Yeah, retention rate is some EMRs are very tricky to analyze that because not
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a lot of them are supporting whether your patients are active or turning inactive. It’s a module that I built in
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the EMR that I’ve worked in the past. Um, most other EMRs don’t do it. So you do need to do some work in Excel and
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realize when was the last appointment, did they come back again or not? And I suggest to start with a proper
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expectation because if you want to take it even deeper and again I’m now putting a little bit more of my data hat and I
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hope I’m not going to overwhelm, right? This is great because they’re going to know how to track this, right? So if you track surgical or
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non-surgical patient, you want to break it down by the different services. So if there are neurotoxins, you would expect
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them to come at least three times a year. four times. It’s also definitely reasonable every quarter, right? Every
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three months, it’s a four times a year. But if they are only laser, skin tightening or different type of
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services, you need to do every six months. Mhm. Right. You maybe going to want to bring them twice. Now, that’s where you start
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to apply different mechanism, right? Like you implementing shape scale in your practice. Give them a reason to come back more often to buy skincare or
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put a mini site for them to buy a skincare, right? But you still don’t want it to be the only time that you are
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transacting with them. So even then there is other ways to get them to come back more to the office right come back try different different
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services that will get them to come back more often stuff like that those are when you start to use more different
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mechanism but then you have a better expectation to your retention rate so you know how often I really expect Jer to come
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back to my office and I’ll know it based on what service you took and that’s really and and I’ll touch a
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lot of what what we preach at the 4s and to me is the queen of the leader of that is the treatment plans treatment plans
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Yeah. Saves 80% of the run treatment plans if somebody adopted into
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a treatment plan and I don’t know any of the practice management today do conversion rate not from a consult to patient
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but from patient to treatment plan and I think that that should be the true goal of all practices is to convert the
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consultation into a treatment plans because then they’re handling a lot of the retention the average ticket average
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all of those stuff are getting handled right there and then ultimately it doesn’t discount any of the experience
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that you’re still going to need to deliver Right. And that’s what going to help you to get then the referrals and move the engine better.
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Yeah. Now, a decent way or at least probably a decent first step for people if they’re trying to figure out how to
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track their retention rate um could even be to start with rebooking rate, right? Like uh like how well how well we are
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getting people from the initial p uh appointment to book that next one. A rebooking rate is fairly simple to
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track. Every day you just say John came in. Did John book another appointment? No, he did not. Great. We had 20 people
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total and 10 rebooked. That means we have a 50% rebooking rate on average
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today. Um, so you could that’s a simple way to like track so you can see at least what the rebooking rate. Now, are
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they showing up? That’s you know those are other things you probably want to you want to are they cancelelling on average like you want to you want to
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track those things as well. But rebooking rate is at least like probably a simple way where if you don’t know how to pull the reports from your EMR or
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whatever and you don’t want to go through the headache, you could probably start at least with rebooking rate. That way you can see on average people are
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coming back for c for the procedures that you’re recommending them for. Um or they’re up. Let me throw a little wrench into that
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or it’s maybe an actually an advice more than more than a challenge.
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Most practices leave the rebook to the front desk at the checkout time.
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Yeah, I’m not a fan of that. I’m a big believer that it’s a huge mistake.
24:34
the provider right there and then before they leave the room that will take them to 90% rebook rates
24:40
versus a 40% they will see from the front desk. So or at minimum provider walks them to the
24:46
front desk and says uh hey Jess we just treated John um and he’s coming back in four months to do another session of
24:52
talks. Uh and then Jess says okay excellent great uh John does this date work for you and John says oh yes the
24:57
doctor tells me the provider of course I’m coming right in. I totally ideally nowadays everybody have the iPad
25:04
they have the calendar right in their hand in the room they can close it right there and there and I think that patients appreciate it
25:11
more the doctor appreciate the worst thing that you want to do and happened to me with other practices right notes the
25:17
static practices doctor say okay I want to see you in two weeks you go to the front desk oh he’s busy in two weeks there is only in a month and a half from
25:24
now you’re like well it’s contradict what he said he wanted to see me now I’m not sure I can it’s too far away right
25:30
it creates confusion and that’s a friction and that’s that’s how exactly you heard patient experience.
25:35
Yeah. Frictionless. It’s the magic. I see some people do the rebooking while
25:40
they’re like numbing before the treatment is they’ll come while the person’s numbing the MA will come in and say, “Hey, by the way, while you’re
25:46
numbing, let’s just knock out some of these other things so you can get right out of here.” And they’ll be like, “Oh my gosh, thank you. Great.” So, you’re going to need a follow-up appointment in
25:52
a couple months with this. or what whatever they want to say, however they do it, but they’ll do it during like numbing. Um, uh, to just a kill the
25:59
time, but b the person’s sitting there ready to go and they’re so far having a great time.
26:05
Um, because you don’t know how someone’s going to feel. Somebody might get needles in their face and then be like, you know, puking or sick and like, I’m
26:11
never doing this again. And it’s like, yeah, maybe you think that now, but in four months, you know, you’re that it’s
26:16
going to out be outweighed by the wrinkles you see on your forehead. Yeah. Um so sometimes prior to the
26:22
traumatizing experience of for some of being injected um to to rebook that now
26:29
uh so tracking your rebooking so first and foremost tracking your rebooking rate or or learning how to track your
26:35
retention rate is critical for you to have a highly engaged audience. And I
26:40
I’ll tell you too I um and I say this all the time. He’s a good friend of mine. His name’s uh uh in fact no I won’t I won’t say his name on the
26:46
podcast. I I will say his name on stage when I teach this point. Um a good friend of mine uh uh had a giant
26:55
audience. I think he had um something like 9,000 people on his list of previous patients during his whole
27:00
career. And he called me and said, “Jared, you know, you’re a good marketer, right?” I said, “I like to
27:05
think that I know about marketing.” And he said, “Well,” he goes, “My books, I’ve got no one on my books.” I said,
27:11
“Well, how big’s your list?” Uh he was like, “My list?” I said, “How many how many previous patients do you have in a
27:16
database that you could send a text or an email out to right now?” He goes, “Oh, like 9,000.” And I was like I was
27:21
like, “Buddy, you could be booked for the next two years with that big of a list.” I was like, “Do they not like you
27:27
or something?” He goes, “No.” I was like, “How often do you reach out to them?” He goes, “Never.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh, dude.” I think I think
27:32
previous patients is the biggest gold mine of of of new appointments of fresh appointments that clinics have access
27:39
27:45
is just to leverage an existing an existing uh patient.
27:51
Actually, between five to time to time to 10 times more it cost you to get brand new patient versus just retaining
27:58
a happy one. And if you retain it, you increase the the profitability by two to four. So you could either pay five to 10 times more
28:04
or you can make two to four times more. You choose. You choose. So step one, let’s track
28:10
that uh that retention rate. Um um let’s talk specifically about I’d love to talk
28:15
specifically about how get kudos works and how it beefs up that retention rate. What the what kind of the fulcrums that
28:22
you’re turning uh in order to bump up you know people that are coming more often. They’re coming for different
28:27
things more often. They’re feeling empowered. What are some of those kind of uh fulcrums that you guys are turning
28:34
that are getting the patient to engage higher? Yeah. So first we operate through text messaging, right? And we make it
28:41
seamless to the patient which means that they don’t need to download an app. They don’t need to remember password and usernames. There is no hassle on their
28:48
end. Yeah. It’s like super simple. Once they get the QR code, said I’m happy, put my name and phone number.
28:53
Ultimately, we suggest already to the practice right there and then give them a branded gift like give them
28:59
a bag for your cosmetic stuff, right? something that they will be able to carry back to their car and then carry
29:04
it back to their home and think about it and get excited about it because they’re going to soon get another text message
29:11
that’s either going to tell them don’t forget to leave us a review or don’t forget to bring friends next time you
29:16
come and here is an incentive to bring them or just going to be like hey Jared we miss you it’s been three months yeah
29:22
here is something cool that you can come back and use right or we’re waiting for you with a gift come say hi or anything
29:27
like that so I say we optimize it we do have kind of Like I say, it’s a plug-and-play solution, especially for
29:34
aesthetics. They can buy today, start to use it tomorrow with our best practices. I like to take the time and understand a
29:39
little bit better the practice and who are their audiences and because it’s a lot of the things that we also teach. If you don’t know who you target, you’re
29:46
going to get random stuff. You’re not going to have you’re not going to be able to keep them loyal if you have super random type of
29:52
audiences, right? You really need to appeal to them. And so once you understand better the audience, then you customize those
29:58
incentives to talk to them. So if you go on the older generation, you’re going to
30:03
offer less cool stuff and you’re going to phrase it also in the less emojis and less things that will get them confused.
30:09
Super simple, right? Exactly. I hate those JBD emojis. I
30:15
It’s cuz you’re so old. It’s cuz you’re I know. It’s because it’s always the same emojis
30:21
for everybody, too. It’s like It’s true. The JBT emojis I I can’t stand. I’m with you on that. No. Yeah. All those star, right? The
30:27
little star. and uh and and if they have younger generation that excited more about like the boats and super small
30:35
ticket stuff then we appeal to them in a different way. A lot of time it’s also has to do with their margins with their
30:40
current margins so they don’t lose give the house and just go bankruptcy and lose money on patients. The goal is always to make
30:47
money on patients and so and for not in order to rape them in order for the business to be a business. We’re in
30:53
business to make money. That’s yeah, period, right? Whether how much you love money or less money, doesn’t matter.
30:59
But in your business, even if you’re a nonprofit type of business, you still need to make money or else you’re not going to stay around.
31:04
And so your your margins are key. And so we work on that when you think about incentivized because I’ve seen a
31:10
lot of time even people out totally outside of get kudos and I’ve seen that mistake a lot. They will go and spend a
31:17
lot of money on the ads then they will push an ads that give a massive discount on a very low margin. Let’s say like
31:24
injectables for example, very low margin and book it on one of the top high paid
31:29
provider that they have, right? And guess what happened on that first appointment? They lost money.
31:36
Backwards. Yep. Backwards. If they got two patients, only one of them is going to come back. It’s true.
31:41
They lost a lot of money right there. And it’s going to take them at least another two, three appointment from there with the one that they retained,
31:47
assuming that they retained to recap back what they just lost on that campaign. So
31:54
not enough people do all the analysis to understand what is the cost of sale and including inside the cost of the
31:59
marketing portion which should be significant. That’s the way to grow. There is no other magic for people to
32:05
hear about you know about you and come to you and be excited about it. That’s the main one that you should use is the
32:11
marketing on the front end. M but if you don’t activate your organic growth from within from your happy
32:17
patient to your point 9,000 patients least this person it’s never need to spend
32:23
money on marketing ultimately it can be booked I’ve seen practices booked for over six months and a year ahead.
32:29
Wow. Now is your platform so your platform is texting patients but it’s not necessarily a a two-way texting
32:35
platform. That’s not the purpose. It’s a oneway text. That’s what I thought. Sending out hey thank you so much. Make sure that you know it’s a short code text that goes
32:42
out to them that says thanks for coming. They can access a portal. They have a portal where they they can choose to go
32:49
to the portal or doesn’t. It doesn’t really matter at all. If they choose to go into the portal, normally they’re more engaged. They want to see how they
32:54
it’s more gamifying. What can I unlock? What other incentives? And in regardless, we will work it for them and
33:01
for the practice to get them back again and keep sending them more without spamming them. Of course, write me TCPA
33:06
compliant. So, we don’t spam them. We don’t do it on the weekends and nights and stuff like that and we only sending them because they asked
33:13
for it and we and it’s a positive messages. They’re excited. They see the message. It makes them want to come back and
33:19
ultimately know we are fairly young company, right? We we launched at the earlier this year did a lot of proof of
33:24
concept. We made massive impact. We have testimonials and case studies of practices that are just raving fan how excited their
33:31
patients are. That’s great. And so that is the good sign for us to know that we are it’s make a difference.
33:36
It’s huge. Now, what kind of referral rewards, what kind of like incentives are you seeing uh work really well
33:43
within clinics right now? Is it just earn this amount of points and get this kind of discount kind of like what you
33:48
would, you know, get with a point system with with other organizations or is it get these points and cash it in for a
33:54
skincare product or what kind of things are you seeing work really well for engaging that audience?
34:00
You touched probably the most sensitive point that it is exciting referral programs with inside healthcare
34:06
practice. Mhm. So a lot of people come with the perception or assumption that the anti-
34:12
kickback is applied to all and anti kickback is mainly trying to cover insuranceances right Medicaid
34:18
Medicare trying to make sure people don’t scam that system. In addition to that there is another law called stirk
34:23
law and I’m not a lawyer so this is not any way shape or form legal advice or legal type of conversation. and I’m telling you what I know doing it long
34:30
enough at this point and just this is my business at this point and so the stir law is way more strict
34:36
and applies to all regardless whether you have insurance or not in addition to that I would say that so so that always
34:43
ultimately create a vary between different states and what they can offer based on their practice if your practice
34:49
is 100% insurance you cannot offer any referral program period and up wow but if you have a portion that it’s a
34:55
cash base if you have skin care if you have different things there There’s many ways to offer that. Do you have to separate that section of
35:01
the business out like as a separate LLC in order to be legally allowed to as
35:06
long as it’s cashbased and you’re not redeeming insurance, you’re fine. There is few more asterisks to it and
35:12
again it’s a statebased and practice servicesbased and that’s why we partner with a law firm actually the largest law
35:18
firm in aesthetics. Every new client that come to join get kudos get a 30
35:23
minutes conversation with them to go over the referral program and make sure that they’re kosher that they don’t do
35:28
anything that is shouldn’t be done in their state and fits to their profile right so and they feel comfortable with
35:34
it I wouldn’t have asked from practices I can tell you that the most common one now we
35:40
close that right we don’t now that we have the big asterisk in front of it like hey you first and for
35:45
first and foremost you got to do it legally now here’s what works if you are doing it legally Here is what I’ve seen most practices do. Regardless to the
35:53
state that they’re in, regardless to their specialties, and regardless to how much insurance they have, whether it’s good, kosher, or not, legal or not, I’ll
36:00
leave it to them and their lawyer that advice. Okay. Yeah. But what most of them do that seems to be the most common that works almost
36:06
like magic, 50 bucks per side. I’ll give you 50 bucks. You come to spend it. When
36:12
you go to the practice, I get my 50 bucks. By far, it’s the best playbook. I’ve seen it work million times for many.
36:18
Cash too, not discounts. Cash works. Cash motivates. Cash works. Here is a 50 bucks. Go spend
36:23
it over there. That is the best. And then you get kicked back your 50 bucks, which we’re not going to call it
36:29
kickback. Yeah. That 50 will go into like a a bank or whatever, a credit a credit account. So they know what how do they how do
36:35
they redeem it with get kudos? They just get an incentive. They tell them here is your
36:41
here’s your $50. on the get kudo side they can mark it as redeemed whenever they
36:46
I want to touch something you said because you called beauty banks and and it’s actually it’s a topic that actually
36:52
we I started to break a lot lately especially more with get kudos more than anything but even analyzing people
36:58
before that all the analysis data P&Ls all of it yeah people don’t understand that there
37:04
is beauty banks as much as it’s shortterm looks cool because you’re
37:09
getting a lot more cash into your bank none of it almost is yours. It’s all liability. No. No.
37:15
And it’s a ticking bomb. It’s a ticking bomb because sooner rather than later, you’re going to want to recognize it.
37:21
Whether the person came or did not, you’re going to need to have a conversation. Use it or lose it. That is a negative conversation. So, the
37:28
romanticize behind you Jared come to start to spend 150 bucks every month to
37:34
my practice and you’re going to get those things is only good if you actually come and use that every month and then everybody happy. But if you
37:39
don’t and he starts to accumulate and depends on the little asterisk that I put, how you going to feel about it,
37:46
Jared who wanted to commit and become super loyal and pay me every month becoming an upset customer is going to
37:51
talk badly about me and I will never see him again. And I’ve seen that way too often. And
37:57
some of them lost very significant patient that spend a lot of money over a lifetime. And so this this is exactly why I don’t
38:05
think we’ve talked about this on the podcast just yet. You have to track production revenue versus collections.
38:13
You have to track your productions of how much revenue was produced from
38:18
services as well as how much money actually hit the bank because membership
38:24
dues, gift cards, those are debts that you owe them. And people will collect
38:31
$100,000 in membership dues for a month and they’ll sell $200,000 in production
38:37
revenue and they’ll be like, “Oh my gosh, we made $300,000.” It’s like, “No, you owe people 100 grand.” Like, “You
38:43
did not make 300 grand this month.” Uh, you use it in production versus collection. Yeah. Of course you
38:49
It looks like debt. Yeah, it looks like debt. I know a practice that lost half million dollar from their from the valuation
38:55
score. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just it’s just production revenue that they’re tracking anyway. They’re
39:01
not tracking collections. You’re becoming a bank. You’re just holding money for people. When they want to come and use it, you can use it
39:07
and you need to give it back if it’s gift cards and stuff like that. Like there is a lot of regulation also how
39:12
you define that liabilities and I think that beauty banks is a big mistake and I suggest everybody go check
39:18
the law, right? Don’t just take Isaac word about it. But if you can avoid it, don’t do it. I’m a big fan of the Amazon Prime, the
39:26
Costco model. You’re buying a status. You want to come to use it. Think about it. You bought it Amazon
39:32
Prime. How often do you use Amazon Prime? Right. All the I use it all the time.
39:37
All the time. I get the next day delivery constantly. Yeah, exactly. You get an incentive. You get a
39:42
perks, right? You have a benefit for being a member. You’re an Amazon Prime member. Give you some TV shows, give you
39:48
all kind of stuff. Whatever it is that you choose to give that makes sense from your margin and what positive activity
39:53
you want them to do. But if I wanted to give you 10% on my skincare line,
39:59
in my opinion, if I’m the business owner and that’s the decision I made, come and shop for all your family as far as I’m
40:04
concerned, why would I give you only 150 bucks for that? Of course. Of course. And so it’s a loyalty is a psychological
40:10
aspect. It’s not about obligation to force somebody. If they’re not happy, they will not come back. And you can try
40:16
to charge them monthly. you’re just going to lose a customer and potentially going to lose reputation. Yeah, 100%. I had a I had a client that
40:23
we we we built a um we built a uh new e-commerce presence for them. We
40:29
switched them from WordPress, from WooCommerce over to Shopify. And part of that was going to be moving their gift
40:36
card debts over from Woo Commerce to Shopify. And Shopify was was about to automatically send a hey, by the way,
40:43
you know, your your your gift card has been moved. here’s how much you uh you can redeem. And I before we sent that, I
40:51
told the before we like locked that in, I told the account. I was like, “Hey, by the way, how much uh how much are we
40:57
about to notify people?” She goes, “Oh, there’s like $500,000 worth of gift cards in there.” And I was like, I was
41:03
like, “How do you feel about us telling every single person at once that they have that money available?” They’re like, “We couldn’t we wouldn’t survive
41:10
if they all redeemed that.” And I was like, “Well, then we’ve got a problem, don’t we? If you’re not in some account,
41:17
the bigger problem, especially when it comes to gift card and if they were defined as a gift card,
41:22
it’s never theirs. Yeah. Like the the amount of efforts you need to put and need to show that you try to
41:29
give it back to the patient whoever bought it, right? The amount of record that you need to
41:35
keep in order to show that then you can recognize about 10% of it crazy is crazy. It’s crazy. Yeah, I would I
41:42
always say in 4s when we speak about P&Ls and liabilities and balance sheets and stuff, never sell gift cards. Never. You can do
41:48
store credit and in some states you even need to do that strict like store credit in Florida is very different than a
41:54
store credit in California from the asterisks that you can put of expiration when you recognize it and
42:01
ultimately you want to move it to revenue eventually, right? You want to own that. That’s the whole goal is how do we get a
42:06
service sold here stuck with it. Yeah. or else you get stuck with it.
42:11
So, what we’ve chatted about today is how do we increase that retention rate uh on average? We’ve talked about the
42:17
average clinic right now gets like 50% and probably a little bit lower like the the mom and pop up the street, you know,
42:24
it’s it’s probably a little bit lower on average, but if you’re going to be a thriving clinic, you should be hitting
42:29
somewhere uh north of 60 to 65% if you’re going to be crushing. uh uh and
42:36
uh uh one way that you can increase that retention rate uh and by the way you can
42:42
track that retention rate maybe through your EMR or you can start tracking rebooking rates to get a little bit of a um an estimate there. But one way that
42:49
you can increase that is through using a software like get kudos. Uh where you are texting people back uh uh texting
42:55
people to remind them of new things that you guys have coming up. Uh where you’ve got like a a reward system that’s built
43:01
into it where you’re having them send uh reviews or whatever, but you’re creating raving fans. Um and so I think a software like this
43:08
is critical and and it’s really not there there really isn’t like a tracking software for this. There’s a lot of CRM
43:14
that will send in auto text after that says, “Oh, please give us a review.” It’s not tracking referrals and all of
43:21
that stuff. So, there’s I think the power that you’ve got here within Get Kudos is is really really cool. And I
43:27
think this could benefit a lot of clinics, especially if they’re seeing a really low retention rate currently.
43:32
Um, so if somebody wanted to work with Get Kudos, do you guys have like a like a 30-day trial or a or a or a 15-day
43:39
trial or something like that for them to get started? We give 30 days to everybody that starts. We do with that free software
43:45
setup, implementation, the customization that they need, put their logo on it, and we also give a free marketing kit
43:52
that worth about $1,500 that will cover for them the banner for the website,
43:57
email, social, email campaign, social media post, and banner designs for the
44:02
practice with ultimately we say unlimited revisions. Our designers are amazing. Normally, it doesn’t take more than once
44:07
or twice. So, that’s awesome. We give all of that for them. Then we do soft launch only in the practice. see
44:12
how it goes. Everybody feel comfortable with that and then we go hard launch and that’s where they send email campaigns and we roll hundreds of patients into
44:19
that and they start to see the rebook rates and the calendar just getting full
44:24
and I’ll give you just simple analysis right of what’s different between what retention
44:30
fix or or save right and and we can everybody can translate it to whatever money they need but if you need to book
44:36
your calendar is 100 people and you go to marketing and you need to spend money to get 100 people through the door and
44:41
out of those 100 only 50 will retain the next month you’re going to need to get another 50 right assuming that the
44:47
company right I’m going to use easy math over here if you can retain 75% of them then you
44:52
spend half of the amount that you needed to spend already the next month true and from there you’re going to spend you’re going to be already over booked
44:58
by the third month and so this is really how the retention rate works just about keeping your
45:04
customer it’s about spending so much less on what you’re spending today to continue to grow and that’s really where
45:10
that’s where they see the impact. That’s awesome. And it’s really an organic channel. So like uh we’ve talked
45:16
about this too where when you’re when you’re attracting new patients, there’s paid channels and there’s organic channels. The paid channels, you’re
45:21
going to pay the same amount per lead every single time. And you’re you’re always going to pay that amount per lead. Your organic channels, you’re
45:27
building momentum so that over time your spend goes down dramatically. If it’s SEO, if it’s social media, your spend
45:33
should be going down because you already have the speed. And in this case with get kudos or a referral program uh you
45:40
know it might technically cost more per patient in the very beginning but over months it’s just like it’s going down
45:46
and down and down in cost compared to the ROI you’re getting out of it. So building that kind of momentum it’s
45:51
critical. It’s critical for every um practice owner. This is awesome. This is awesome. Well Isaac this has been so
45:57
great guys. Uh you know we’ve talked about uh we when we when we talk about that whole entire patient funnel we talk about fascination being getting eyeballs
46:04
on your business. Then we talk about acquisition being turning those eyeballs into a lead, conversion being selling that lead, and then engagement being
46:11
recycling that lead up to the top over and over for years to come. And that’s exactly what we’ve talked about today is
46:16
how do you re-engage and how do you keep those uh patients engaged? So, if you’re struggling at any in any way with
46:22
patient retention or you have done the math and realize, oh my gosh, I’m below 50% uh for retention rate, Get Kudos
46:28
could be an incredible solution for you um in order to beef up that retention
46:34
rate. So Isaac, and then how do they what is it? Get kudos.com. Is that the uh is that the website? Get kudos.ai or they can just go to
46:41
Google and search get kudosai and we want to be number one for them. Perfect. Get kudos.ai. Um well, thanks
46:46
Isaac for joining us. I appreciate uh taking the time and adding value to our audience. I’m sure uh retention rate is
46:52
something that I don’t hear a lot of people talking about. So it’s really cool, I think, for our audience at least to be like, “Oh my gosh, I I didn’t even
46:59
consider that I should be uh fighting to retain those patients.” So very grateful that you uh you joined us today.
47:05
Of course. Appreciate the opportunity and thanks for for sharing. That was a great discussion. I love it. Yeah, I think so too. Uh and thank you
47:12
everybody for listening to the patient magnet podcast. Once again, my name is Jared Roar joined by Isaac uh from Get
47:17
Kudos uh and uh uh I’m the CEO and founder of Aesthetic Conversion, a web and SEO uh agency. So uh thank you guys.
47:25
If you guys disagree with anything that we talked about today or you agree, please throw a comment down below. We’d
47:31
love to fight you down there. throw a like on there. Subscribe if you’re on uh if you’re on Spotify or YouTube, please
47:36
subscribe so that we can uh get those numbers and see who’s actually engaging and what content is valuable to who. Um
47:42
and that’s it. We’ll see you guys next time. Thanks everybody. Thank you.
47:48
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Why the Future of Patient Loyalty Doesn’t Include Financial Liabilities